I wouldn’t say friends liking it is any kind of flag at all. Not engaging with it (ie: it’s good/fine/polite response) would mean it wasn’t for them and that’s fine. Engaging with it but having no feedback would mean they liked it and found themselves unable to provide feedback because nothing stood out to bother them or they didn’t have the editing chops to suggest a change. Engaging with feedback would mean either something did jolt them out of the story or they have editing skills or they got so inspired by it they started trying to make it their own.
Certainly the last is the most useful though. It’s good to have found your audience. And your audience may be underserved so even if your audience isn’t straight men with manic pixie dream girl fantasies who make them the best version of themselves, you may still have readers.
I’m in the second group - it has stuck with me, it made me cry, and I discovered a new-to-me artist. It’s possible it can be improved, but heck that I know how. It’s a unique idea (what, not everything has to be obviously inspired by Shakespeare, fairy tales, or LOTR?) and it’s very true to its author (you aren’t writing about things you haven’t understood and didn’t research - you live in your real self not some optimized version).
On the other hand, I do have feedback galore for some published authors 😝 (the only one that really frustrates me is a local mystery that I really enjoyed but had some glaring mistakes- no one starts their journal with a description of their own character and she kept changing pov with some new paragraphs and I wouldn’t figure it out until it got really confusing then I’d have to backtrack. I want to edit it so I can reread it in comfort.)
I have the first version Brandon Sanderson wrote for The Way of Kings. It was a good, solid fantasy book. Forgettable but decent. I don’t know why his editor handed it back to him (I wouldn’t have) and got him to redo it - it was already better than half the published genre. But he must have had an excellent editor, because I love final version of The Way of Kings, have read it twice, and sought out pretty much everything he has written.
Anyway, I think an editor is invisible to the reader but an invaluable asset to the author.
You know, I would really like to sleep before our ramble. 😝 But the blowing rain woke me up and I rushed outside to bring in wood before it got wet. I’m hoping it abates enough to go for a walk but trying to control the weather is not something I need to be kept awake by 🙄. The wood is dry. My family is safe. Go to sleep… before the alarm goes off.
I love you so much. I’m reading all these wondrous comments and trying to get myself up and dressed and out of the house to you so we can have tea, and crumpets and maybe make tiny books on a rainy day that is requesting gentle coziness. See you soon so soon.
The crumpet batter is rising and I’m about to head out and split wood since it isn’t fitting in the stove. I bought a beautiful tisane at the market and have filled the kettle. It’s going to be a good morning. 🥰
I said that because i get a lot of requests for editing services from people who have never worked with editors and when they tell me friends and family loved their work, it makes me worried that they won't be able to handle criticism. my biggest fear as an editor is that i will crush someone's dream of being a writer by offering editing suggestions that run counter to the love they've received for the work from well meaning friends and family. the f & f love their writer friend and want to be supportive. unless they are steeped in contemporary literature and attuned to its issues, tropes, cliches etc, they do not know how to improve a work and make it something that could be published. You asked for editing advice with very clear intentions and your expectations were also well defined. You didn't want copy editing or substantive changes. You wanted to know what I thought and whether the work resonated for me. the doodle edit was a great way to offer you something constructive and whimsical. but when i get the "my friends and family loved my work" without any clear and realistic expectation of constructive criticism, yes...it is a red flag. when a potential client mentions this validation to a potential editor, and doesn't express the possibility that the work has just begun...they will not find my editing helpful. my role as an editor is to help a writer make what is in their head a reality…it is to identify areas of improvement. and yes, part of it is to encourage them to keep working and to share their enthusiasm. if a writer has realistic expectations and is not just looking for confirmation of validation, i can help. if memory serves, before you sent out your delightful novellette to all 42 friends,.you sent it to a few people who were editiors. and you never used the my friends love it statement as validation. your novelette would be so wonderful on the screen! I'm so sorry, Wake..i was expressing my own frustrations of being an editor. at no point was i thinking of you..you are very professional in your writing. you research. you work with editors..you take criticism well. Basically you're a dream client. sending you hugs and love and profound apologies.
After sitting with your words I realized you weren’t talking about me 💖
And you’ve explained your feelings so thoroughly here! Knowing you, and knowing your frustrations, and having editor friends…I was able to spend time with your words.
(As you can see it took me some time to sort it, and I hope that in the final outcome of my sorting you saw that I have only love for you and your beautiful brain!)
It was scary, asking my very wondrous editor friends with a critical eye to read my novelette.
…and I am spectacularly grateful that we talked with clarity about how you could deliver feedback that wouldn’t cause my brain to decide to quit writing forever 🤣(I am laughing because my brain is so sensitive to criticism and I wish it weren’t. I wish I was stone and could just take it and not…feel it)
Your doodle edit was absolutely a favourite part of the process (after writing it, and falling in love with my characters).
I love you so very very much.
I wish I’d been brave enough to contact you after you wrote your frustrations down to ask if it was about me. But I hadn’t yet accessed that level of bravery yet.
Oh the red flag was regarding the client’s likely ability to accept your advice!
But I see when I read over what I wrote and what you said, they lie side by side without conflict. Yes, it just means their friends and family are either gentle and polite, or engaged but without ability to edit. But for your client… well. If they’ve never heard anything but how lovely their work is, they may have a very hard time accepting some changes would improve their baby. Which would indeed be a red flag from your perspective.
The gentle conversation that happens with and around Wake is so life affirming. I’m glad they had your help. 🤗
I wouldn’t say friends liking it is any kind of flag at all. Not engaging with it (ie: it’s good/fine/polite response) would mean it wasn’t for them and that’s fine. Engaging with it but having no feedback would mean they liked it and found themselves unable to provide feedback because nothing stood out to bother them or they didn’t have the editing chops to suggest a change. Engaging with feedback would mean either something did jolt them out of the story or they have editing skills or they got so inspired by it they started trying to make it their own.
Certainly the last is the most useful though. It’s good to have found your audience. And your audience may be underserved so even if your audience isn’t straight men with manic pixie dream girl fantasies who make them the best version of themselves, you may still have readers.
I’m in the second group - it has stuck with me, it made me cry, and I discovered a new-to-me artist. It’s possible it can be improved, but heck that I know how. It’s a unique idea (what, not everything has to be obviously inspired by Shakespeare, fairy tales, or LOTR?) and it’s very true to its author (you aren’t writing about things you haven’t understood and didn’t research - you live in your real self not some optimized version).
On the other hand, I do have feedback galore for some published authors 😝 (the only one that really frustrates me is a local mystery that I really enjoyed but had some glaring mistakes- no one starts their journal with a description of their own character and she kept changing pov with some new paragraphs and I wouldn’t figure it out until it got really confusing then I’d have to backtrack. I want to edit it so I can reread it in comfort.)
I have the first version Brandon Sanderson wrote for The Way of Kings. It was a good, solid fantasy book. Forgettable but decent. I don’t know why his editor handed it back to him (I wouldn’t have) and got him to redo it - it was already better than half the published genre. But he must have had an excellent editor, because I love final version of The Way of Kings, have read it twice, and sought out pretty much everything he has written.
Anyway, I think an editor is invisible to the reader but an invaluable asset to the author.
You know, I would really like to sleep before our ramble. 😝 But the blowing rain woke me up and I rushed outside to bring in wood before it got wet. I’m hoping it abates enough to go for a walk but trying to control the weather is not something I need to be kept awake by 🙄. The wood is dry. My family is safe. Go to sleep… before the alarm goes off.
I love you so much. I’m reading all these wondrous comments and trying to get myself up and dressed and out of the house to you so we can have tea, and crumpets and maybe make tiny books on a rainy day that is requesting gentle coziness. See you soon so soon.
💖💖💖
The crumpet batter is rising and I’m about to head out and split wood since it isn’t fitting in the stove. I bought a beautiful tisane at the market and have filled the kettle. It’s going to be a good morning. 🥰
oh. and homemade crumpets. divine!
I said that because i get a lot of requests for editing services from people who have never worked with editors and when they tell me friends and family loved their work, it makes me worried that they won't be able to handle criticism. my biggest fear as an editor is that i will crush someone's dream of being a writer by offering editing suggestions that run counter to the love they've received for the work from well meaning friends and family. the f & f love their writer friend and want to be supportive. unless they are steeped in contemporary literature and attuned to its issues, tropes, cliches etc, they do not know how to improve a work and make it something that could be published. You asked for editing advice with very clear intentions and your expectations were also well defined. You didn't want copy editing or substantive changes. You wanted to know what I thought and whether the work resonated for me. the doodle edit was a great way to offer you something constructive and whimsical. but when i get the "my friends and family loved my work" without any clear and realistic expectation of constructive criticism, yes...it is a red flag. when a potential client mentions this validation to a potential editor, and doesn't express the possibility that the work has just begun...they will not find my editing helpful. my role as an editor is to help a writer make what is in their head a reality…it is to identify areas of improvement. and yes, part of it is to encourage them to keep working and to share their enthusiasm. if a writer has realistic expectations and is not just looking for confirmation of validation, i can help. if memory serves, before you sent out your delightful novellette to all 42 friends,.you sent it to a few people who were editiors. and you never used the my friends love it statement as validation. your novelette would be so wonderful on the screen! I'm so sorry, Wake..i was expressing my own frustrations of being an editor. at no point was i thinking of you..you are very professional in your writing. you research. you work with editors..you take criticism well. Basically you're a dream client. sending you hugs and love and profound apologies.
No apologies needed at all!
After sitting with your words I realized you weren’t talking about me 💖
And you’ve explained your feelings so thoroughly here! Knowing you, and knowing your frustrations, and having editor friends…I was able to spend time with your words.
(As you can see it took me some time to sort it, and I hope that in the final outcome of my sorting you saw that I have only love for you and your beautiful brain!)
It was scary, asking my very wondrous editor friends with a critical eye to read my novelette.
…and I am spectacularly grateful that we talked with clarity about how you could deliver feedback that wouldn’t cause my brain to decide to quit writing forever 🤣(I am laughing because my brain is so sensitive to criticism and I wish it weren’t. I wish I was stone and could just take it and not…feel it)
Your doodle edit was absolutely a favourite part of the process (after writing it, and falling in love with my characters).
I love you so very very much.
I wish I’d been brave enough to contact you after you wrote your frustrations down to ask if it was about me. But I hadn’t yet accessed that level of bravery yet.
Thank you. For everything. 💖
thanks, my dear. clarifying is always helpful. i needed an editor for that post :) hugs and love to you.
You just made me giggle out loud. I love you so very much! (And am so looking forward to our chat next week 💖)
hurray! me too .
Oh the red flag was regarding the client’s likely ability to accept your advice!
But I see when I read over what I wrote and what you said, they lie side by side without conflict. Yes, it just means their friends and family are either gentle and polite, or engaged but without ability to edit. But for your client… well. If they’ve never heard anything but how lovely their work is, they may have a very hard time accepting some changes would improve their baby. Which would indeed be a red flag from your perspective.
The gentle conversation that happens with and around Wake is so life affirming. I’m glad they had your help. 🤗
thanks, Heather. I've enjoyed the engagement too..i love your tiny books and i am so glad you and Wake are close. you are a delight 😊